[done] External Controller [Archive]

FogTom

13 Nov 2008, 16:41

I would vote for the num pad if I could assign the keys to go beyond selecting cameras (selecting players and enabling/disabling split screens). That would allow a wireless num pad to control the entire process. Maybe you're already heading in this direction but I think that would be a powerful feature. I would also like to see the "presenter" mode put back in to allow switching cameras remotely.

-Tom

Mike

13 Nov 2008, 20:08

Scott

03 Apr 2009, 01:54

I just spoke with a video professional today who said he uses the X-Keys Button Panel (http://www.piengineering.com/xkeys.php), its near the middle of the page. I also have heard people using Novation's hardware as well. The X-keys panel looks like it would work well, especially with the rocker switch for dissolves/fades.

camjo

08 May 2009, 17:31

Hi all, just stumbled upon this great program.
Still evaluating and so far so good.

Looking to this conversation i would like to add that it would be helpfull to use the numpad (and also the num-keys) to select the preview-cams (into the preview screen) the spacebar to cut, and assign the F-keys to some transitions preferble that the user can assign them (with an instant cut when pressed).

Greets from the Low country.
cheers!Kevin

geeknews

09 May 2009, 18:00

Mike

The newtek controller lc-11 cost more than your studio program does and while I cannot live without it for tricaster shoots. In my application I would not use it. But I can see where people are using this as there only solution would want a switcher/controller. Mine site directly above my keyboard and I can switch, fade, change overlays without looking away from the camera it makes a difference in one man shoots.

espermedia

21 May 2009, 04:04

Yes - how about the Novation product???

http://www.amazon.com/Novation-Intelligent-Controller-Universal-Technology/dp/B0019VK3EW/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1232979765&sr=8-3

Mike

24 May 2009, 10:40

You'd have a few buttons, but not more than on a numeric keypad, and lots of dials for which I see no purpose?

espermedia

24 May 2009, 12:35

The dials do not seem to have much function - true, but the buttons and mainly the fader are the big usability items. Being able to manually fade between clips is a big plus coming form a typical hardware video switcher...

Mike

24 May 2009, 13:30

I doubt it. First of all I have talked to several directors who have worked with professional broadcasting control rooms, and they told me that fades are hardly used at all (as I can see on TV), and second that even if they do i.e. a dissolve they mostly use the take button. I might add that I doubt a (volume) fader on a control like this will feel even remotely like a t-bar.

I feel we need to find something with either a real t-bar, or don't bother and just have lots of buttons. So far I know of one professional director who is very enthusiastic about using a (wireless) numeric keyboard, as you can operate it blindly and with one hand.

espermedia

24 May 2009, 18:54

Not on 'TV', but for live productions in the area of church/worship, we use the fade/t-bar to hand mix/fade multiple shots all of the time. This is useful for blending multiple musicians for example in a single shot. We have all of the equipment needed to do an 8 camera shoot (using ProPresenter software and a hardware-based video switcher along with rack-mount monitors, etc.). What we are looking for is something that we can use to replicate at least a portion of this functionality in a portable solution. So, for us, having the ability to manually 'mix' inputs is a huge plus as we already do it often in our current workflow. A slider would work for this over a simple numeric keypad. I love the idea of the keypad, by the way, I just would like the manual control to freely mix inputs as well.

Dave Owen

25 May 2009, 00:26

In my role as a TV director it's true that I don't use a lot of fades (I call them dissolves or mixes - fading implies to/from a colour or black) but they are still a critical part of the production. Some transitions just have to be a dissolve, and sometimes it just has to be manually controlled. At the last station I worked for I was the only director who always used the t-bar so maybe it's fair to say I'm in a minority there, but I believe my transitions had a better feel than my "auto-transition" colleagues. In any case every single director had to use the t-bar at least occasionally.

Obviously I don't expect the same sort of functionality from Vidblaster as I'd get from a professional vision switcher but I definitely miss the t-bar. It would be the top of my desired feature list for an external controller.

If there's nothing suitable out there, perhaps we should be looking at getting a custom-built controller designed for Vidblaster? I don't actually think it would be that difficult. I'd be interested to know how much you guys would be willing to pay. I'll start - I'd pay up to $1000 for a good controller to go with Vidblaster. Maybe more if it was really good.

Scott

25 May 2009, 07:09

I have been following this thread with interest since I am in the process of creating an external USB controller that incorporates much of VB's layout. How critical is the t-bar? Keep in mind this feature would add a good deal of cost to the controller to a controller.

I am not sure if this functionality has been implemented somewhere before, if so I apologize in advance. For certain productions some human control over a dissolve adds a nice "real time" effect to a transition. From what I have seen in the past, usually the transition holds at about a 50/50 percent ratio for a period of time before finishing. Perhaps being able to control this time factor by hitting and holding the button to transition to 50% and when released complete the transition 100% to the new source. Would this suffice?

Also, the video effects module has some nice effects that would seem to work well for most productions.

espermedia

27 May 2009, 00:18

Dave - Not sure $1000 is in the price-range of the church/ministry clients I work with, but $400 -$500 would be. I know there was an older Videonics CommandPost product in the $200 range that was consumer-focused. I never used the item and pictures of it online make it look a bit cheaply made, but user reports seem to be positive (many DJ/VJs use it for live performance it seems).

Scott - as mentioned, the manual control would be a nice feature for the workflow I have experienced with my clients. The 50% transition and hold is not bad, but often they dissolve to 50% and then go back to the main camera, rather than to the second camera/input. This is typically done in musical performances when you want to show multiple performers at the same time.

Great to hear there are others working on interfaces to this cool application. I know we are purchasing at least one license this week and I look forward to watching the continued development of the software as well as any external control devices.

Cheers!

JakobR

09 Jun 2009, 20:59

Hi Mike. I´m really impressed on how you discuss future features with your customers. An excellent example on an Internet approach to product development. :)

Found this googling for an usb-fader. 999 dollars. Looks like professional gear though.

http://www.jlcooper.com/pages/mcswipe.html

EDIT:
And this, not as good but 150 dollars.
http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=2

JAKOB

mikem

13 Aug 2009, 19:41

If each module can be programmed to operate off one of the 12 function keys on the top of the computer keyboard, then cameras could be switched with F1 - F4, a couple of players with F5 -F6, and maybe some layers with F9 - F11, or what however you want to set them. This would give enough control for almost any live show.

Mike

14 Aug 2009, 07:36

@mikem: You can already do that now with the numpad, read the Help.

@JakobR: Thanks. I already talked to these guys and it gets a lot more expensive as you need another module to go with the wiper.

digixmedia

19 Oct 2009, 12:34

Hi everyone
what about support midi signal? so you can use every midi controller or you can design your own ;)

Mike

19 Oct 2009, 16:19

That might be an idea if we can find a suitable midi controller..

Tony

20 Oct 2009, 05:06

That might be an idea if we can find a suitable midi controller..
]

have you talked to some of these companies to make one for you?

digixmedia

20 Oct 2009, 07:35

in my opinion its no matter what controller to use.
by adding midi mapping option to your software you can assign every midi signal to any function you want
so you can use any midi controller in market.

CraigB

26 Nov 2009, 17:26

I think that simply being able to right click a button on the switcher or on an individual module and being able to create a custom shortcut would be helpful. Then we could map an external usb keypad like this one http://www.piengineering.com/xkeys/xkpro.php to activate those shortcuts.

Just my 2 cents

PeterHazenberg

04 Nov 2010, 19:04

Hi Mick,

I saw some request for external hardware controller to be used with Vidblaster. So far there is not one on the market that will fit, so I decided to design one myself. I already did some desktop research and have two questions:

1) are you able to make all (at least most used) functions accessible as shortcut on a normal keyboard? (I know the camera cuts already can be done with the num-pad)

2) are there more people interested in a hardware controller if the price would be between 500 and 750 euro?

Specially for the broadcast user I think this can be an interesting accessory to close the gap between the traditional hardware mixers and VidBlaster (maybe ask Katja ;-)

Mike

05 Nov 2010, 14:34

I assume #1 is meant for me? Yes, the API can be used for that.

EdEstes

16 Nov 2010, 14:56

That might be an idea if we can find a suitable midi controller..

Mike,

I'd like to put in a request for a specific device, the Novation Launchpad (http://www.novationmusic.com/launchpad/) looks like a great solution for an external controller.

http://www.novationmusic.com/media/product_images/125.jpg

It is available internationally (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Novation-LaunchPad-Ableton-Live-Controller/dp/B002TX7B4E) so all your users have access to it. With a pricetag of under $150 (£136.99 on Amazon) it is very affordable. Each of the 64 square buttons can be light individually (in red, yellow or green) so there's good visible feedback. You could theoretically control 32 devices (in preview/program modes) with this hardware. Since it is MIDI, your development efforts have a greater return since other devices could also be added in the future if there was an interest. (something others in this thread have asked for)

Check out this YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMgxLPcq-3o) demonstrating its use for audio.

With 16 round "macro" buttons we could create a template overlay that would be used for other commands/functions. (in addition to the "CUT" and "TRANSITION" controls.)

The buttons are not your typical broadcast equipment switches, but for the price point, I think it's a good compromise.

Thanks for your consideration.

--Ed

Mike

18 Nov 2010, 08:24

Wow, that is a cool device. It would be really cool if someone were to make a video like this, but with VidBlaster :P

Do you have one? How are the keys? Someone comments the device feels cheap..

Of course, the main reason many controllers were discarded is the lack of a t-bar, and this controller lacks one too. Another thing is that I learned professional switchers use 10 fingers in a row. If this controller was a little wider (10 columns) and had fewer rows it would have been better. But I can't begin to imagine what new features can be thought of with all these lights, so definitely interesting and I am curious to hear what others think of it.

(This controller would have worked so well for CastBlaster btw.)

PeterHazenberg

18 Nov 2010, 13:05

Nice to read that I'm not the only one looking for a hardware controller ;-)

So far there is a big cap between VidBlaster kind of solutions and e.g. VidiGo (http://www.vidigo.tv/vidigolive/).

A turnkey VidiGo system (with max 4 inputs) will cost € 45K+, while a complete VidBlaster system (broadcast) could be bought for less then € 10K. (both ex cams etc...)

Last year I sold many VidiGo systems in The Netherlands and know from the proposals that didn't end in an order there is a great potential for VidBlaster as soon as a hardware panel is available.

I know Novation and worked with it many times. It's a typical DJ/sound controller.

As mentioned earlier by someone, there is also X-Keys (http://www.xkeys.com/xkeys.php) The even have a developerkit (http://www.xkeys.com/custom.php)

Like Mike noticed; the button itself if very important. I'm working 20+ years in the broadcast industry and know that this: (http://www.greatecs.com/media/de/pdf/Pushbutton_Switches_with_LED_PB59.pdf) is the button used by all professional video mixers. A T-bar could come from Penny & Giles (http://www.pennyandgiles.com/Digital-T-Bar-Video-Controller-pd-71,3,27,.php)

Together with a keyboard controller:
- (http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Keyboard_Encoders)
- (http://www.halemicro.com/Products/Products.html)
- (http://www.u-hid.com/home/overview_board.php_)
etc...
... of Mikes' choice I'm able to develop a VidBlaster dedicated control panel if enough people are interested

Peter

EdEstes

18 Nov 2010, 14:56

I do have one to evaluate since it was so inexpensive. I don't know if I would call the buttons cheap, just different. The costs of having 64 true physical switch buttons would significantly increase the price, which would have put it out of reach for the audience they are shooting for. This is a device for the masses, which is why they made the design decisions they did.

While this device isn't likely going to meet the expectations of people who come from tradition broadcast, (nicer buttons in a longer row, t-bar, etc) I think it will be a great starter controller for many given the price point. (and an excellent solution for people buying the Pro or Studio additions.) Many are going to have no experience with professional broadcasting systems so their standards are going to be lower. With 64 buttons, I could see where a "virtual t-bar" could be created with one of the rows of buttons. (like what they do with the virtual audio mixer in that YouTube video)

I too think there could be some amazing things done with this controller - it would complement a macro system very well. (buttons could be used to fire off sequences and various effects) I was going to write some code to demonstrate it on VIDBlaster with the API, but sadly the API is only enabled on the broadcast version. (another shameless plug to get that feature enabled on the studio version :)) Even for high-end broadcasters, this might be a good secondary controller for other functions.

I do think there is room for Peter (or someone) to develop a high-end controller as well. I was considering designing one but I am just not sure if the audience is large enough given the price point you'd have to sell it at...

--Ed

PeterHazenberg

18 Nov 2010, 15:50

Hi Ed,

I'm also wondering if there is a big enough audience for a "to be developed" controller. On the other hand I demonstrated at least 20+ professionals in the broadcast industry in the Netherlands and all of them loved the VidBlaster concept. Actually there where always two show stopper: 1) the size of the source monitors (since many of the work with remote controlled camera's and 2) the missing hardware controller.

If I understood Mike well he's working on issue 1 so that leave the "guts" of developing a controller. With my background and contact I must be able to create one.

My research up till now comes up with a development cost of around € 1.000,-. And then it doesn't matter much if I produce one piece or a large quantity since I'm dealing with a company specialized in prototyping enclosures (and other hardware).

I'll keep on doing my research and hope Mike will support me a bit about the "communication protocol" he would like to see so the first prototype could be ready around Christmas...

Peter

Mike

18 Nov 2010, 15:56

I think it would be great to have a 200 dollar and a 2000 dollar version, if the latter can compete with Newtek's controller of the same price.

PeterHazenberg

18 Nov 2010, 16:13

Two minds, one thought ;-)

I founds several VidBlaster compatible controllers in the price range of $ 200 (or less) more in the "gaming" area that could control VidBlaster.

For $ 2000,- it's defenitly possible to develop a professional controller that wil be very much apriciated by people like Katja ;-) to control Vidblaster.

I like the idea of going for to directions. One for the "less" demanding budget user and one for the high-end professional.

To be continued...

PeterHazenberg

18 Nov 2010, 16:23

BTW Mike: In the range of $ 200 you can find programmable keypads like this one: http://www.fentek-ind.com/kpp35u.htm

I can imagine it's sufficient for many users.

Peter

EdEstes

18 Nov 2010, 17:08

I agree Mike/Peter, it would be nice to have both.

I have seen the TriCaster at NAB, but I don't know what features the TriCaster LC-11 controller (http://www.newtek.com/tricaster/tricasterlc11.php) has that would be necessary for a VIDBlaster Controller. Is the row of "Effects" buttons necessary? They have 11 preview/live buttons, what would our ideal number be? We all agree that the t-bar is important, but how about the settings controls for it - would all that be done in software as it is now? (speed, fade, etc) Is the overlay panel needed?

What other (if any) features would be useful in a controller if we were to design one to complement VIDBlaster? How about an audio delay feature? (have stereo in/out jacks and buttons to inject a delay to sync audio with the video stream) Or is that best left as a separate device?

I think a custom keyboard encoder would be necessary, given the complexity of what we would want to do. (controlling the LEDs, etc) I have worked on a couple of custom PCB designs and it would actually be cheaper to do one ourselves than try and leverage multiple off-the-shelf boards. (plus it would be more robust/reliable)

It would be useful to get the community involved with a design and then go out and see what options we have for fabrication of the resulting controller. (in a true open hardware spirit)

--Ed

PeterHazenberg

18 Nov 2010, 17:53

I also visit NAB and IBC every year and always take a look at the Newtek booth. Years ago I even sold Tricasters (for the Dutch readers: http://www.artivisuals.nl/articles/VT%5B3%5D.pdf) but I have to admit the the quality is really not what you expect from it's price. Also There LC-11 controller costs $ 2.000,- and I think for this amount of money you should have something much more "fitted" to software production tools. (e.g. "recording-", "streaming-" "overlay-" "playlist-" buttons etc.

If Mike agreers with this we could maybe start a topic about how a control panel should look and what it should be able to do. As being Ducth myself I would be very committed to cooperate with Mike to get this done...

Peter

EdEstes

18 Nov 2010, 19:46

Yea, we're starting to show our age... :) It's interesting to see how NewTek has evolved - I remember first seeing a Video Toaster in the 90s. Kiki was doing the demos even back then!

I think Mike has already agreed!
I think it would be great to have a 200 dollar and a 2000 dollar version, if the latter can compete with Newtek's controller of the same price.

Interesting ideas on the "fitted" tools. You're spot on that this has to enable the features that most VIDBlaster users use in production environments. (and not only the current feature but what is likely to make it into VIDBlaster over the next 6-12 months) I would image that configuring the profiles would be done with the keyboard/mouse but everything done at broadcast time would be managed through the controller.

Let's start a thread in the "General Discussion" forum and see what the community would like to have in such a controller.

--Ed

Mike

20 Nov 2010, 15:18

Ed, I understand you are a programmer and have worked with midi? What's involved talking to a device like this? Browsing msdn right now..

Mike

20 Nov 2010, 15:44

Found it, seems pretty straightforward. I think I'll order the controller so I have something to play with. Assume you'll keep yours so you can help testing/designing?

PeterHazenberg

20 Nov 2010, 17:08

Mike,

If you like I can oder one and bring it to you, since we have a "date" to meet anyway... ;-)

Mike

20 Nov 2010, 17:24

http://twitter.com/MikeVersteeg/status/6028266238377985

EdEstes

20 Nov 2010, 17:53

Sounds good. I also found some libraries & example code here:

http://sites.google.com/site/skriyl/Home/programming-novation-launchpad-visual-c-6-on-windows
http://rngtng.github.com/launchpad/

Yes, I will be keeping mine and am more than happy to help with the testing.

Cheers!

--Ed

Mike

21 Nov 2010, 10:35

Great. And thanks for the links. I want to leave this topic for further controller suggestions, and focus on the Novation Launchpad here (http://forum.vidblaster.com/showthread.php?p=9824).

DaveMacD

30 Nov 2010, 17:37

MIDI interfacing would be fantastic (especially if it goes in my version of VidBlaster!). I already have a lot of MIDI peripherals, and I've created several of my own MIDI interfaces before with microcontrollers (Arduino if you're curious).

PeterHazenberg

01 Dec 2010, 11:23

MIDI and specially through the Arduino uC would be more than perfect! I used this uC already for a few projects and it would set an ideal base for a professional external controller. See this link http://www.machinecollective.org/ to get as enthusiastic as I am ;-)

Mike

06 Jan 2011, 08:51

In v1.23 I will be introducing support for the Novation Launchpad (http://forum.vidblaster.com/showthread.php?p=9824). I will mark this thread as done as there are no open cases, but feel free to post here when a new controller needs support.

PeterHazenberg

30 Jan 2011, 11:43

Hi Mike, I don't know how "universal" you programmed the Launchpad controller interface, but if it's done though a general MIDI interface it should be easy to use other midicontrollers as well (through "midi-mapping")

I'm very interested to start using this http://www.icon-global.com/ShowPro.aspx?ID=100 controller since it's more like a traditional broadcast switcher. One row could be program, an other preview, a third your new aux-bus :rolleyes: The slider on the left could be a X-fade between program and preview like the T-bar on a broadcast mixer...

I'm just curious if anybody else will like this controller as well...

Mike

30 Jan 2011, 12:07

Although I like the form factor, I do not like the pink & blue leds :eek: nor can I imagine doing a fade with that small potentiometer. So all in all it does not appeal to me more than the launchpad.

Did not write any midi-mapping (yet).

Mike

30 Jan 2011, 12:46

Googled a bit but there seem to be several midi mappers available, so you can always use one of those to convert midi commands from any device to that of the launchpad.

Mike

13 Mar 2011, 16:09

I just tweeted (http://twitter.com/#%21/MikeVersteeg/status/46953194638680064) about this, but for those not following me: there is another way to control VidBlaster as you can see in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wb6bBi6xpg) video. Yes, touch control is very affordable and works like a charm (I know as I have one of those screens myself).

Rafal Oramus

13 Mar 2011, 19:57

Mike, do You consider VB for iPad? ;-)

Mike

14 Mar 2011, 08:15

You mean remote control with an iPad? Yes I did, and it is fully prepared through the API. Any iPad programmer will have no problem writing a tool for remote control of VidBlaster as the iPad already has support for TCP (and WiFi) built in. Same goes for any other tablet or phone that supports TCP.

Rafal Oramus

28 Oct 2011, 19:25

Had no idea where to write this (probably this thread would be most appropriate (http://forum.vidblaster.com/forum.vidblaster.com/showthread.php?t=2601), but it's closed).

In "VidBlaster v2 - The New Approach!" press release it has been written much about Novation Launchpad support.

I think this should be specified in VidBlaster Comparison Table also. I'm not sure if "Hardware controller support" means the same.