[done] Instant Replay?

[Sinc747]

Mike, Have you been asked about instant replay as a feature, yet?

I am currently broadcasting sporting events. Replay would be very cool.

Tom
www.PirateSoccer.TV

[agilpwc]

I second a vote for an instant slow motion replay, with a customizable buffer.

[Hunter]

same!

[NoobZaibot]

same!

+111

[Sinc747]

Mike,

Have you looked into instant replay as a feature of VB? It would not necessarily need to be part of one of the the three version of VB, but could be an add-on feature for a separate fee.

I would imagine it would work like a recorder module that kept only the last 20 or 30 seconds of live action and then allowed that to be played back on command. Slow motion instant replay would be a big plus, too.

Just wondering.

Tom

[kenny]

still on trial version and its the only thing that stops me buying, also trying out another similar bit of software and that allows you to time lapse but the switcher doesnt have a GUI yet so you need to do a bit of coding

kenny

[Mike]

This would not need sound, right?

[agilpwc]

I wouldn't need sound.

[kenny]

This would not need sound, right?


no sound for me as we use an external sound source so can talkover the replay, only thing i would like is to be able to pick the lenghth of replay, the other software i'm trying simply takes the same source and delays processing by the amount of seconds you specify so when you have something you want to show again you simply switch to the delayed source to see again and then switch back to live when you have seen what you wanted to see.

at least support here responds ;D

[Mike]

So I'm seeing a module with a preview image, a slider beneath where you set the delay, and a Cut and Take button. This could be a dedicated module, or a video effect in the Video Effect module. I would then either have to replace the 2 drop down boxes by a slider, or make delay a setting in the popup. Am I missing anything?

[kenny]

depends on where the source image is taken from , for me it would need to be the same image as my single dv input

[TVIZME]

it would be wonderful to have one drop down to select a source for capturing Iso angles. jp

[Sinc747]

Mike,

It's very exciting that you are considering adding this feature!

Sound would not be needed.

The ability to save the instant-replay video for later playback would be important. For example, in a soccer match you might want to instant-replay a goal, but also want to show the post goal celebration live, then switch to the instant replay. And then, you play the instant-replay again at halftime as first half highlights. This might mean a collection of saved instant-replays available in separate player modules.

If this ends up being a full featured instant replay, I would expect to pay more for it or buy it as a separate add-in module to VB. The more powerful the instant replay, the more it is "worth" and the more it may be wise to sell it separately.

More than any other, this feature will make VB a serious contender in the expanding field of Internet Broadcasting of school sports.

I have researched school sports broadcasters around the USA and found none that are using instant replay. Very few are even using a scorebug or graphics. Instant replay will make VB a Giant Killer in this new field!

I await your new feature with baited breath.

[Mike]

Guess it's good I'm asking these questions as it seems John & Kenny need something different than Tom. If I understand correctly, Tom just wants an instant replay of program video, but John & Kenny want it from *any* source? That's a technical challenge (and a resource one), so I'd have to rethink my original idea.

[kenny]

just to clarify

dv camera in as per normal but also need a copy of dv camera in but with a time delay so i can switch between the 2

in short 2 inputs for same source with 1 running a delay

kenny

[Mike]

@Kenny: AFIAK that's what Tom wants, being able to replay program video.

So that leaves John. I think I found the solution.. If you are able to select the source and use multiple (Instant) Replay modules (would that be the best name?), Tom can use one, and John could use 100 and use lots of resources. I love this modular concept :)

[TVIZME]

The modular concept is the way to go.

[TVIZME]

on the tricaster you can either select program video to capture for replay OR a selected input BUT not both. It can only support one recorder. This can been a request for newtek for a long time. - to add another recorder to record both the ISO and Program video.

[TVIZME]

This was a 3rd party plug in for the tricaster. The reason i am showing is to maybe trigger and idea of how it operated. This was so successful that newtek made there own version called timewarp with controller.



http://www.youngmonkey.ca/hands/restaurant/plugins/InstantReplay/index.html

[Dave Owen]

Just quickly, my five cents: Being able to select any source would be critical to make this feature work properly. Especially in sports broadcasts where pretty much the whole point is to see various different angles that weren't originally shown in the program feed.

[Mike]

@Dave: so a module per source would not work for you then? Capturing ALL sources requires a lot of resources..

[Johan Lundberg]

If you make it a separate module for each source you want to use for replay then I believe everyone would be happy?
That way you could add replay modules as needed and would not be limited by anything else than system resources.

Sounds to me like the way to go, right?

Regards,
Johan

Edit:
When I think about it this might be something you could combine with ISO-recording of sources. If you create a recording module that can have any source as input that would give you the ability to ISO-record whatever you like, and maybe you could use that same recorded signal for replays? Important thing would of course be that the ISO-recording can continue even while you play an instant replay. In other word you would have to be able to playback a file that is currently recording.

[Mike]

If I understand Dave correctly he wants to show the replay from different cameras (angles). With different modules, capturing would continue while you are replaying on one module. That means you'd have to "rewind" extra on the other modules to compensate for time passed while doing the first replay. With one module capturing all sources, you would logically stop the capture process while in replay mode, i.e. just set the desired time shift and replay any source you like.

Of course I can overcome this problem by adding inter-module communication to sync them all, but it would probably be a little more complicated to set everything up.

[Johan Lundberg]

Hmm, yes for that you would need to synchronize the recordings in some way.

[Sinc747]

Mike,

Are you suggesting that a seriies of "instant replay" modules would somehow be connected so that they would rewind together and play in synch with each other.

Then, would you select a "instant replay" module to broadcast? And to show a different camera angle in the coninuing action, you would select a different "instant replay" module?

Tom

[TVIZME]

Awesome, now you guys are on to something

[agilpwc]

I would just need what Tom needs, for sporting event.

[Dave Owen]

I'm just thinking of a recorder module that can select any source; i.e. an iso-recorder (able to record any selected source in isolation, including program). This recorder would be controlled like a VCR - you select the input source then record, rewind and replay at will. Basically, if you have a recorder module like this then you have pretty much any type of replay functionality I can think of. If you really need fully automated one-click instant replay with pre-determined parameters, I guess you could build that into the module. I think that would be the exception though - in most cases you'd want to rewind and replay manually to get it exactly right. Another option is to set an in-point as you're recording, then one click stops recording and takes you back to that point ready for replay.

In order to have multiple replay options, you'd use multiple recorders. Each recorder would select a particular camera, or perhaps switch between cameras as needs dictate. For example, in sports it's common for one recorder to switch between cameras at each end of the playing field (since only one of them really needs to be recorded at a time).

I wasn't really thinking of recording all sources at once continuously - that would usually be unnecessary.

I hope I'm making sense. If it would help at all I could probably take a camera down to a sports OB and get a few quick shots demonstrating multiple cameras through a matrix for replays etc.

[Sinc747]

Dave,

I have no background in television to bring to the table in this discussion. What I do have is a season's experience of directing a series of internet broadcasts of soccer matches from Alabama, USA (www.PirateSoccer.tv). Using VIDBlaster, I controlled up to 3 cameras, 6 overlay modules for scoring, 4 players for ads and prerecorded interviews, not mention sound for up to 5 mics. (Perhaps I was trying to do too much!)

I would have loved to have had an instant replay function, but... it had better be simple and easy to use simultaneously to everything else.

I envision the ability to click a module to temporarily save a predetermined length of time video for later playback. If I could save all three camera angles with one click... Great! If I could replay the saved video and select which of the three camera angles to broadcast... Even better. If could switch between the three cameras in the replay... Best of all.

And... if I could permanently save the replay (all three camera angles) for future use... Wow!

But... I'll settle for just about anything that is easy and quick to do.

Tom

[Sinc747]

But if there's a better way, I'm all for it!

[Mike]

This all comes down to resources. Those of you who have tried recording something know that the choice is either to hit the CPU hard when encoding video in real time, or hit the HDD hard to record huge amounts of uncompressed video. The moment you want replay of any video source, you'd need to record all of them. That means if you have 10 sources, you will be using 10 times as much resources. That roughly means a 10 times faster CPU, or a 10 times faster HDD.

[Johan Lundberg]

That's exactly why it would be so good to make this "module based" as everything else. Just add the number of recording/replay modules that you need and that your system can handle (one module = one recorded/replay source). I still think a concept where you ISO-record a source and have the ability to replay from the recording without having to interrupt the recording is the way to go. I know this will demand quite alot of system resources, but it will make this module very flexible, and as computers get faster also easily scalable.

Regards,
Johan

[Kokomo]

For me it would be nice to have a replay of the already transmitted source. So 1 recorder who you can let record different take's and replay them eventually in slomo. When you can delete the uninteresting take's and keep the take's you may want to use on later.

[Sinc747]

Mike,

Any progress on this feature or still in the planning stage?

Tom

[Mike]

Sorry Tom, no progress on this as I first want to get things like HDV working properly. Also a lot of time goes into buying an office so I can finally set up some studios and have decent upload bandwidth. So the bad news is you will have to be patient, the good news is I am heavily investing in VidBlaster :)

BTW: thanks for all your help on the forum!

[Sinc747]

Mike,

I definitely understand about stretching yourself too thin and taking on too many projects at the same time! The curse of too much inspiration!

Glad to help on the forum in areas where I am (or think I am) competent.

Keep your hand to plow!

Tom

[kricher]

I would like to add my vote for an instant replay module as well. It seems this discussion is going in the right direction with the modular approach.

[kricher]

One thing I just thought of that I didn't see anywhere in relation to instant replay is the implementation of a speed control. The ability to slow down or stop the action while playing back could be very important.

[WATV-Larry]

This feature gets a big vote yes from me. The ability to slow down or freeze frame would be nice as well.

[DigitalRazor]

This all comes down to resources. Those of you who have tried recording something know that the choice is either to hit the CPU hard when encoding video in real time, or hit the HDD hard to record huge amounts of uncompressed video. The moment you want replay of any video source, you'd need to record all of them. That means if you have 10 sources, you will be using 10 times as much resources. That roughly means a 10 times faster CPU, or a 10 times faster HDD.


Could nVidia CUDA or ATI Stream or OpenCL help any ?

[Sinc747]

Mike,

I think that Instant Replay would not be a feature for everyone since not everyone is streaming sports.

On the other hand, Brian Brushwood would probably use it to do an Instant Replay of how he scammed some bar flies for a few brews. ;) If is had slow motion, I could see others using it to dramatize parts of their shows.

But, it would really, truly be for sports.

With that said, I think Instant Replay should be the first add-on program for VB. Price it separately. Make a crippled version available for testing (maybe 30 days use with VB watermark).

Everyone has something they'd like you to add to VB for them (for free). I know you're a nice guy, but you've got to make a profit on this sooner or later. I think separate add-ons is the way to go.

Another example: Someone wants to split VB onto two PCs for more power. You figure out how and make it an option ($99US, maybe more). Somebody else wants chroma key. Make it work and charge for your time.

Just some thoughts.

Keep up the great work!

[Mike]

I understand and appreciate your thoughts, but add-ons are an administrative nightmare.

[agilpwc]

make the "premium" features part of the studio version. I would really like to see instant replay implemented. I would upgrade.

[Sinc747]

Eric,

That makes sense!

[HawkMultimedia]

I just had a client ask about this capability. So, add another, "I'm in for one!" Of course, I'm hearing George from Seinfeld reply... "hang on, Ma. Hang on!"

[Don]

I'm wondering if my request is related to an instant replay feature? When I present a live webcast I am playing videos before the webcast goes live, but I would like to be able finish the video before going live and not miss any of the live action. I don't always have a set time for going live so I am filling the time with videos. ??? Would this require a dvr feature?
Thanks,
Don

[Sinc747]

@ Don

I think the "player module" will do what you need. Check it out. Good luck.

BTW, what's your show?

[Mike]

Actually Don would need the Replay module for this, assuming whatever he calls "life" is something on camera. As I currently have the replay module in my head, you could use it to time shift one or more cameras. Of course, audio would not be shifted, so that might be a problem.

This question does trigger a problem: should this be called a replay module, or something along the lines of a timeshift module?

[Sinc747]

I understand now what Don is asking for.

Many similarities between the DVR function and the Instant Replay function. I suspect IR would gain greater attention and use.

[Mike]

While biking back from my office I did some math and came to the conclusion you typically need about 1 GB for a 30 second delayed replay in PAL quality. Alternatively you could use a hard drive, but to avoid interfering with the recording it would have to be a dedicated one. What would you prefer? I would prefer to use memory as it would give that instant scrolling feedback, but at the price of memory usage.

[Don]

Thanks for taking a look at this. I recently purchased a new i7 with 12gb ram that I use to webcast our church services. I don't start the live portion of the webcast until the music is over for copyright reasons. That's why I don't always know exactly when I will be showing the live camera shots. I thought if I could start recording the sermon and then show it with the delay I would have a cleaner transition between the videos and the live. I have 4 hard drives in the computer so whatever you think would be the best approach is ok with me.

[HawkMultimedia]

I'm fine with either option, but of course the option for either would be optimal for the end user. Don's scenario (a common one) would need to include audio. The ability to control the replay via a jog wheel or control would be the bomb.

Just curious how anyone is doing replay in the meantime. I've seen one post using an Edirol. Any poor man versions a la DVD recorders or Tivo's?

[Mike]

Oops! http://twitter.com/MikeVersteeg/status/6893673337 :)

[JakobR]

Mike: Let me know if you want to compare with the functionality of broadcast gear.
I have worked some as an EVS-operator. EVS is the standard equipment for sport slowmos.

JAKOB

[Sinc747]

@Mike,

Sounds like that's a NEW feature! I'll bet no other program does that!

[HawkMultimedia]

Yeah, I've always done things a little backwards, so it suits me just fine. ;)

[Mike]

I'll be introducing the Replay module in v1.10, it'll be available in the trial and studio editions. It works exactly as I planned: it is extremely easy to use as basically you only need to hit one key to do a replay. If necessary you can scroll back and forth in time using a track bar, which even on a slower system is blazingly fast provided there is no memory shortage. As live video production is all about speed, I did not add anything else as I figure there won't be time for it. If you want more features, please start by suggesting a way to add them without slowing down those who do not want these features, and of course where to leave them (popup, bigger module). But first give this one a try, and let me know how you like it and if there are any problems. If everyone's positive, we can build on this.

Thanks for all your feedback!

[Ed Trust]

Just a thought for Don. Have you thought about using royalty free music for your intro/waiting time before going with the live cam shots? Then you wouldn't have to be tied to copyright restrictions on playing the entire song.

[Sinc747]

I have been testing the new Instant Replay feature and I am truly impressed. How Mike was able to make this happen with very little additional CPU horsepower needed is amazing. This new feature is very cool!

As with any new feature, there are always "improvements" that folks would like in the new feature to make it fit their needs. One of those improvements is the ability to do the replay in slow motion. I wasn't sure about this until I had tried out instant replay in real live streaming. Now, I agree. The ability to slow the replay to 50% speed would be very desirable. I've had a few VB users write me privately to express that IR is okay, but not really what they need without slo-mo.

The other "improvement" that I would add is the ability to save the replay somehow for later inclusion. Sometimes, in sports, there is some much action in 30 seconds that the replay module can't hold on to that great shot long enough. I'm not suggesting increasing the replay duration, but rather the ability to "save" the last 30 seconds as an uncompressed file somewhere, somehow.

Other thoughts?

[Johan Lundberg]

Good thoughts Tom.

I've been playing around a bit with the Replay module and one thing I think should be added is the ability to use it as a source for Video effects. Right now you can "only" choose cameras, players and effects as sources. It would be nice being able to do a picture in picture with replay + a live camera.

Regards,
Johan

[Mike]

FYI: from v1.12,the replay module will be available in all 4 editions of VidBlaster.

[kricher]

Great! Thank you Mike!

[Echo7]

Yes. Thanks Mike. That's why I bought and am excited to continully use VB. You are to be applauded for your efforts. I am now contemplating an Internet Video Broadcasting school here in the Norhtwwest US..still under consideration. But, your support and constant upgrades to keep the program up to date and workable gave me the idea.

[Sinc747]

This continues to be my favorite feature for sports broadcasting. We make extensive use of this feature in broadcasting our soccer matches.

Very cool!

As VB continues to mature and different parts of the program are enhanced, I hope the replay can be enhanced with slo-mo and the ability to save the replays for later use.